Curse

majoho · May 28, 2010, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

The usual EULA excuse, even though it has already been mentioned that the EULA is legally highly questionable especially in Europe.

You're missing the point, it's not a legal document - it describes the rules you have to follow to have access to the game-

Quote:

Or don't you think that "We can ban you without any reasons" isn't extremely one-sided and to the disadvantage of the customer? It's like saying "We expect you to pay for a service that we then decide about if we actually provide it or not!".

You might have had a point IF YOU HAD NOT BOTTED!

cebalrai · May 28, 2010, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

ok, its clear that a temp ban on botters accounts is not a solution, give a cheater a week to return, and they will have a new bot that is less detectable.

Bingo.

/end thread

Kashrlyyk · May 28, 2010, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

YES IT IS
That is like saying someone who robs a gas station is somehow different from the guy who robbed a bank....

We aren't speaking about something equivalent to "robbery", more like stealing a chocolate egg.
Would you agree that stealing a chocolate egg should get you prison???? Or would a warning be more justified???

majoho · May 28, 2010, 07:10 AM // 07:10

The thing is more why do you try to justify what you did?

Get over it, you brought it on yourself, you can only blame yourself.

Mireles · May 28, 2010, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

The usual EULA excuse, even though it has already been mentioned that the EULA is legally highly questionable especially in Europe.

It is not a matter of legality, It is about playing by the rules of the created game that you paid to get into and required to agree to comply with to play. If you get caught cheating you lose. It is their servers they can discontinue service or change it at any time for whatever reason.... and you can always buy back in if you want to play again.

s73ve_o · May 28, 2010, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Yes. The end. If you botted in GW and didn't know the repercussions, then you're an idiot. It's been stated plainly numerous times and whining about just now getting caught is a joke.

Of course, there were some people who got caught in the crossfire accidentally, like those using textmod a good deal, but they can work that out with support.

I'm sad to say that I lost a lot of friends from GW due to this, but it was time.

sure. except that when you take the time to actually read the terms of service they state that botting is not an instant ban but puts marks (which include temp bans) on your account before more extreme action is taken on repeat offenders... ok well they dont state that but they dont say that botting deserves account termination.

i have not been banned and am not worried about a ban but i agree with his argument

sixdartbart · May 28, 2010, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

We aren't speaking about something equivalent to "robbery", more like stealing a chocolate egg.
Would you agree that stealing a chocolate egg should get you prison???? Or would a warning be more justified???

so you are a cheat and a thief?

In some countries they would cut your hands off, then maybe, just maybe you would have a reason to use a bot.
I would still want your cheating handless arse banned though.

dancing gnome · May 28, 2010, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Well it seems that people need to reminded of it time and time again because 3,700 seemed to have some how missed this warning. And we woudln't want anyone using the excuse "we didn't know" in the next set of bans.

If you bothered to read this from Anet you would have found there is more to it. And yes every ban should be permanent how else will people learn there is no excess for ignoring warnings and thinking nothing will happen to you.

If you are caught breaking the law you are punished bottom line, if you are caught speeding you get a ticket and if ignore that and you get three tickets within a year you lose your license (depending on state). Anet has said time and time again in the tos, eula, login announcements, ingame chat announcements, on the forums, on the offical wiki on their main site in the FAQ for the past five years. All those were/are and will be your second chances there is no excuse you nor anyone else can give.

They can it's called contacting support.

People seem to want a lot of chances when they ignored all the other warning about illegal activities. And it's the same gripe every time Anet mass bans people "we didn't do anything wrong", "we didn't know", "I only did it once", "We didn't deserve a ban" later we all find out there was more to it they didn't just one thing wrong they did a list of things.

And if they and you are innocent then that's something you can take up with support and may they lift the ban.

I read the article. Apparently what I read and what you read were different things because you seem to imply the article details the reasons for every account ban, which is not what I see. No-where does it say all people banned were serious botting offenders, or does it even scale the offence, it simply says they botted.

In the law, even if you get a speeding ticket you get a court hearing. Even with a simple breach of the law there are varying degrees of offences and conditions under which offence is judged. That's why we have judges, juries and courts. Not everything is black and white, something that a lot of the kids on these forums will realise as they get older.

As far as reminding people they breached the EULA, sure the first time it had value, the 100th time you are being obnoxious and unhelpful and probably shouldn't have posted in the first place. I'd also like to know that knowledge of law and warnings are different from second chances. A second chance comes from actually breaking the rules and being let go with less dramatic punishment. When you flat out ban everyone there is very little incentive for anyone to learn anything. Most of these people will just leave the community.

As far as your suggestion that I can go to support, thanks for your concern and your assumption that I was banned (which is a good indicator of your thorough thought process) but I wasn't banned. No-one I know was banned. I didn't lose anything with these bans, but I am capable of questioning whether the actions taken were the actions warranted and that's not a black and white question.

sixdartbart · May 28, 2010, 07:50 AM // 07:50

I'll repost this since we seem to have a night shift of trolls trying to justify their cheating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugs Not Drugs

I was banned for botting, I go right out and admit. I am disappointed (I have been playing Guild Wars since '06) but I am not going to lie to myself and try to justify it. I broke the rules and I payed the consequences. I know what I was doing was wrong, but I was lazy and felt I deserved all the nice things other players had without working. I fooled myself into thinking that I would not be banned, even though deep down I knew that sooner or later I would be caught and punished. I have nobody to blame but myself, so I applaud ANET on their decisiveness. I'm not saying this just because I am already banned. If ANET somehow knew all the accounts that were botting, I would rather them give them a perma ban than take the pussy way out and "give them a 2 week ban" to "a chance to reflect on their misdemeanors."

Take Note Kids
This is what is called person responsibility {something that is sorely lacking these days IMO}
ALL of the people twisting and contorting to justify cheating "I only did it once" "Everyone else was doing it" " it happened along time ago so I shouldn't be punished" "I did it to help my friends" "blah blah blah" should try to learn how to do what Pugs has done here!

belshazaarswrath · May 28, 2010, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mireles

You seem totally offended by the fact that people were banned publicly? why? You know they broke the rules...and why care if its a pain in the ass?

For one, there is no clearer way to show who is in control than "showing off" if by that you mean enforcing rules that create a game.... just like the police will pull your ass over with flashing lights and sirens..to remind people you better not speed or drink and drive we will get you too. Sorry apparently there is enforcement to rules... by spreading that message they are doing people a favor by reminding people there consequences to botting.

Because people are basically reveling in other peoples misfortune. Yea they broke the rules and yea it's fair to punish them. So do it. Don't do it and then say "Ha look at all these guys we got." And it's one thing to catch a drunk driver and send him to jail and catching a drunk driver yelling at everyone who will listen that you caught the guy then send a public service announcement about how you caught and canned this guy.

Riot Narita · May 28, 2010, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

No one knew of the repercussions or they would not have botted in the first place.

Bullsh*t.

Everyone knows that botting is a bannable offense. Everyone except knuckle dragging illiterates.

cebalrai · May 28, 2010, 08:08 AM // 08:08

This is a thread where cheaters try to rationalize cheating and act like they're some kind of victim.

The people that they scammed in PvP? The people who can't afford what they want because the bot economy drove prices far too high? They're not victims apparently.

Only the cheaters are victims here.

???

Feathermoore Rep · May 28, 2010, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Just about all games out there reserve the right to ban you for using thirty-party software to influence the state of play. Not just for a week or two or a month, but for life. FPS has server bans and PB bans. Other online MMOs have their hackshield set bans. Etc etc. Even if they say first offenses are a week, they always have the right to make that punishment longer.

So yea they should get termination. And the EULA's not questionable. It and aNet are pretty clearly on their intentions.

midnightduo1 · May 28, 2010, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Just so you know, Anet did not intentionally create an environment in which provoked players to cheat. They were just being quiet for the past few months about them gathering information and tracking the cheaters via ip addresses. Besides, they were expecting players to abide by the rules anyway.

One of the point of view of cheaters so far:
Would you cross the street on a red light?
Would you do it if absolutely nobody was around and it would be completely safe to do so?

Now answer this:
Would you break into a house surrounded by a watchful community, with anti-burglary defenses such as alarms in place?

Would you do it if everyone in the neighborhood happened to be on vacation, and there was nobody home, nor is the alarm on and also the doors are unlocked?

Zehnchu · May 28, 2010, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

I have never seen that announcement INGAME and on the forums or on the wiki doesn`t count. Even the login screen isn`t enough, because you can add a command to the shortcut to GW and automatically login, never seeing that login screen.

Permanent punishment without a warning shot first are not OK!

you really want to go there...

Quote:

10/28/2008

Don't Get Hacked
Never download or run third-party programs that claim to hack Guild Wars. Often, these are used to steal account information. Attempting to use a third-party hack is not only punishable by account banning, but it also exposes your personal information to account theft. For your sake and the safety of your private information, do not use hacks.

Quote:

27 June 2007.
Players: Protect Your Account
Most account thefts are directly related to the unauthorized resale or sharing of Guild Wars Accounts or to the attempt to download alleged cheat programs. In addition to putting your account in jeopardy, these actions are against the User Agreement and result in account termination. To maintain your account's security, do not purchase or sell existing Guild Wars accounts, do not allow others to to access your account, and do not download third-party programs.

Quote:

May 26th, 2006
Bots Banned
In our continuing efforts to preserve a solid game economy and to support the legitimate Guild Wars player, we have been actively pursuing those who use "bots" in Guild Wars. In the last week, we have closed more than one thousand accounts of those using third-party programs, and we will continue to take similar action in the future.

There are a few more but I know you and others would use the excuse of "it doesn't say we would be banned for it". So that's why I didn't bother posting anything for 2005 and 2009 and we got 2010 yesterday in the chat window so people can't use that excuse of "I don't read the login announcements" and I am sure there will you or someone else will say "I don't see any for 2009".

Sorry it's pretty clear that botting=ban.

Wynthyst · May 28, 2010, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

In a virtual world someone used a program to get virtual results and lost REAL MONEY! How hate-filled and stupid do you have to be to agree with you?

I am not hate filled, or stupid. You say you lost real money.. how? How many hours of entertainment did you get out of Guild Wars before you were banned? If it is anything at all like the rest, it's easily in the thousands. How much have you spent?

If you have spent $500 buying the 4 games, +char slots, +goodies (this is a high figure btw unless you owned many accounts) and spent 5000 hrs playing, you have paid $0.10/per hour of entertainment you received. I personally think that's a pretty good return.

You claim the EULA is an excuse, well, then you shouldn't have pressed that I AGREE button when you registered your account(s), because the clauses covering the use of bots has not changed (that I know of). Don't agree to something you haven't read. If you get caught breaking the rules you can't use ignorance as an excuse.

ArenaNet owns the intellectual property rights to everything contained in this game, they own the servers you play on. There is no conflict with the European laws that have been so widely flaunted in some of these threads. You own a CD (if you bought retail) that will now make a lovely coaster. You have lost nothing. Cheating is cheating, and it's against the rules. I don't believe you have never been on the wiki, or on another fansite, you are HERE and the rules have been made clear repeatedly.

Riot Narita · May 28, 2010, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugs Not Drugs

I was banned for botting, I'll go right out and admit it. I am disappointed (I have been playing Guild Wars since '06) but I am not going to lie to myself and try to justify it. I broke the rules and I payed the consequences. I know what I was doing was wrong, but I was lazy and felt I deserved all the nice things other players had without working. I fooled myself into thinking that I would not be banned, even though deep down I knew that sooner or later I would be caught and punished. I have nobody to blame but myself, so I applaud ANET on their decisiveness. I'm not saying this just because I am already banned. If ANET somehow knew all the accounts that were botting, I would rather them give them a perma ban than take the pussy way out and "give them a 2 week ban" to "a chance to reflect on their misdemeanors."

I applaud Pugs Not Drugs for that post.

He knew what he was doing was wrong. But when the sh*t hit the fan, he took it on the chin, and didn't try to invent any justification for himself. And he was big enough to make that post.

I feel much more forgiving toward someone like Pugs Not Drugs, who takes responsibility for his own actions. Whereas I feel no sympathy at all for people who try to justify their crimes, or wriggle out of the consequences, when they knew full well what they were doing.

majoho · May 28, 2010, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynthyst

There is no conflict with the European laws that have been so widely flaunted in some of these threads. You own a CD (if you bought retail) that will now make a lovely coaster. You have lost nothing.

I agree on this, at the very best people in some counties would get a partial refund, there is no way any national laws can force Anet to reactivate banned accounts.

Gill Halendt · May 28, 2010, 08:30 AM // 08:30

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoran...is_non_excusat <-

Enjoy the EULA, now that you're banned you'll have plenty of time to read it carefully and question wether botting was bannable or not.

trialist · May 28, 2010, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

Because people are basically reveling in other peoples misfortune. Yea they broke the rules and yea it's fair to punish them. So do it. Don't do it and then say "Ha look at all these guys we got." And it's one thing to catch a drunk driver and send him to jail and catching a drunk driver yelling at everyone who will listen that you caught the guy then send a public service announcement about how you caught and canned this guy.

Some folks here seem to have never heard of the concept of deterrence. Doing a mass ban and then publicly announcing you have done so is exactly what anet is trying to achieve. Deterrence.

Silently banning individual accounts without letting a soul know about it does nothing for anet where deterrence is concerned.

I mean look at the hooha this mass ban has generated, look at all the people asking in fear whether drunkbots are ok, whether texmod is acceptable to use and so on and so forth.

Mission accomplished for anet i say. Fear instilled? Check. Deterrence in place? Check. GG? For the botters, yes.